Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Goodison on February 1, 2012 at 3:32pm

We will have to agree to disagree. All the tech in the world is useless without the user. I alway hear about "our system will do this" "our system will do that". IT won't do anything to drive sales and CSI unless a human gets involved. Therein lies the problem. So many "tech" companies fail to understand the beast they're dealing with. These are car guys. They sell cars. They get paid when they sell cars. Anything they deem to be a waste of time, they will find their way around. So, all the cool bells and whistles that the IT department thinks are great, get skirted and provide no real world benefit. Sure the Internet Dept will use more features than the sales floor but I can guarantee you that, even the best dealers, only use about 20% of their CRM's capabilities. As I said, when I started in this business there were 3 or 4 players, not including the DMSs. Now there are almost 100 CRM Vendors. You should be proud of what you do! So, elevator pitch for this audience, in 50 words or less, what makes your company unique? Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by David Goodison on February 1, 2012 at 3:34pm

ELeads is a very good company.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Shetterly on February 1, 2012 at 3:43pm

For what it's worth, I have one of the deepest technology backgrounds of anyone in this vertical market.  Without question or hesitation or reservation, TECHNOLOGY IS NOT THE ANSWER.  People once thought talking soda machines were going to be a big thing.  They weren't.  On the other hand, the rifle--essentially clubbing someone at a distance--was so simple to use that that technology was supreme.  Except it wasn't technology that answered anything there, either.  It was technology that, unlike the soda machines, answered a real need.  If you didn't know how to use it or were afraid to or ran, it did you no good.

Technology empowers progress.  However, PEOPLE *choose* progress and to participate.

Give me a medium CRM and great processes, and I'll take on any dealership anywhere on a per-deal comparison.

Give me a great CRM and poor processes, and I'm dead in the water.

Technology, again, is NOT the answer.

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Permalink Reply by CarSeller on February 1, 2012 at 3:48pm

David,

You are preaching to the choir. I do really appreciate your feedback. You and I are on the same page on just about everything.

We deliberately didn't build in bells and whistles that no-one uses for marketing purposes only. We don't make promises we can't keep. We built a tool that every sales person will want to use. We have decades of experience in the industry and we left out all the fluff that never works.

I agree on the human element. There is nothing tech can solve without a motivated customer.

But modern technology is a key advantage for us, you should be able to use your smart phone, ipad or any browser you want from anywhere in the world at anytime to get real (not made up) data and feedback. Simple easy accurate and extremely fast.  

I feel like I have taken up more than my fair share on this thread so this will be the last form me. Thanks for your patience and reading this.

Thanks!

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Permalink Reply by David Goodison on February 1, 2012 at 3:53pm

I wish you much success CarSeller!

 

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Permalink Reply by justin reeck on February 1, 2012 at 4:23pm

I use vinsolutions and  would never use anything else....it is extremely user friendly and very efficient and integrated into all our systems

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Permalink Reply by Joe Tareen on February 1, 2012 at 5:12pm

"Hosted" and Cloud Based System is where all your personal banking information is stored, so why would it be not safe for an automotive CRM. I am afraid your statement does not hold true in the IT world. "Hosted" or Cloud based solutions spend millions of dollars in beefing up securities and firewalls where as a local LAN of a dealership spends  minimum. Just because a server resides on a LAN does not mean it cannot be hacked into. 

Thanks

Linn Boyd said:

Andrew,

Something that you need to consider as a #1 is the data security on your CRM, I recommend staying very clear of any "Hosted" or cloud based solutions.

Cheers!

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Permalink Reply by Keith Shetterly on February 1, 2012 at 5:14pm

@ Joe:  Well put.  The cloud is here to stay.

Joe Tareen said:

"Hosted" and Cloud Based System is where all your personal banking information is stored, so why would it be not safe for an automotive CRM. I am afraid your statement does not hold true in the IT world. "Hosted" or Cloud based solutions spend millions of dollars in beefing up securities and firewalls where as a local LAN of a dealership spends  minimum. Just because a server resides on a LAN does not mean it cannot be hacked into. 

Thanks

Linn Boyd said:

Andrew,

Something that you need to consider as a #1 is the data security on your CRM, I recommend staying very clear of any "Hosted" or cloud based solutions.

Cheers!

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Permalink Reply by David Goodison on February 1, 2012 at 5:22pm

Mr. Shetterly knows of what he speaks!

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Permalink Reply by Joe Tareen on February 1, 2012 at 5:31pm

@ Keith. I wholeheartedly agree that the Cloud is here to stay. Many people are still grasping the true potential of it, partly because most of this technology is currently in an incubation period the way I see it. I always say when someone asks me what is the Cloud about: The Cloud is about 3cs. Cost, Choice, and Customization.

Keith Shetterly said:

@ Joe:  Well put.  The cloud is here to stay.

Joe Tareen said:

"Hosted" and Cloud Based System is where all your personal banking information is stored, so why would it be not safe for an automotive CRM. I am afraid your statement does not hold true in the IT world. "Hosted" or Cloud based solutions spend millions of dollars in beefing up securities and firewalls where as a local LAN of a dealership spends  minimum. Just because a server resides on a LAN does not mean it cannot be hacked into. 

Thanks

Linn Boyd said:

Andrew,

Something that you need to consider as a #1 is the data security on your CRM, I recommend staying very clear of any "Hosted" or cloud based solutions.

Cheers!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Linn Boyd on February 1, 2012 at 8:58pm

@Joe

All of your banking is NOT stored in a "Hosted" or a cloud based solution that is controlled by others and Bank Of American and Wells Fargo control their own infrastructure and systems. All of the small credit unions and banks that I have worked with have all of the data in either their facility or a private colocation area that is SSAE 16 audited. Their websites may be hosted by someone else but not their private data. They also get an audit log of who has seen all of their data, along with other safe guards. Yes, it is on the internet, but it is not a "hosted" our cloud based solution completely, with a CRM system they are putting it all out there.

With a hosted solution you are inherently vendor locked into their solution, they can raise their prices at will, and not let you have access to your own data and a lot of other things. I know of more than one company that was servicing enterprise type of accounts using megaupload's CDN to distribute the data, now they are out of business, and they didn't have a copy of their data, some were also using a sister companies data.

Here is a study released by the Gartner group http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/gartner-seven-cloud-com... also there are many healthcare and financial rules about the cloud that are beginning to come out right now that are going to specifically ban cloud computing.

Would a customer buy a car from you if you told them, hey I have a great business and am making money but if I go out of business you get a car with all of the screws and bolts to hold it together taken away just overnight. That is what going with a hosted CRM/DMS solution can do to you! 

For your websites there are ways to safe guard this, but with your CRM/DMS etc. etc. there is not. You should be getting nightly backups of the following daily delivered to you on a USB key(or disk drive), and rotate them in two week increments with at least one going off site.

1) DMS
2) CRM other critical tools
3) eMail server
4) Critical Files
5) If your website is dynamic this (if it isn't dynamic you should get it monthly)

You should also have a SOP that allows you to continue business as usual without any vendor, without losing email addresses etc. within 48 hours.

One of the things that I see is a store send person emails from their sales staff to a customer using another domain example, it is very unprofessional to see Keith.Shutterly@iamtocheaptobuymyowndomain.com rather than keith.shutterly@mylocalcarstore.com. Using the other domains that are used by hundreds of dealers also makes it very easy to block those domains from corporate email etc. and if you don't think that administrators do that you are mistaken. I know a large hosting provider that causes those email email domains to be slowed purposely. This hosting provider is responsible for millions of domains. It is proven that customers don't like to see their information sold etc and the domains changing are exactly that.

I am could keep going, but I am going to end with this from someone at MIT that is much smarter than me. Speaking about security in the cloud. If the government specifically bans cloud computing for anything of any importance on their internal systems, it makes me think that I don't want my company’s proprietary information there either.

"The very term cloud computing should be replaced by swamp computing." Ron Rivest, MIT Computer Scientist, co-inventor, RSA public key cryptography algorithm.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Shetterly on February 1, 2012 at 10:07pm

Eh, since you mis-spelled my name on the email, too, I'm going to hop on this, too.

First, saying that a hosted solution is "inherently vendor locked into a solution" is just . . . well . . . incorrect vs. server-based, especially for dealers.  A server-based solution, which about every dealer in the USA has had at one time or another, is as "vendor locked" as anything possible.  In many cases, for years dealers didn't even own the hardware and in the beginning of it all they weren't even allowed to touch the machines!  Dealers who have changed DMS, which are often still server-based, can tell you of the issues involved.  It wasn't "vendor locked" it was "vendor welded".  

Even today, the state of data and network protection at most dealerships is dismal on their own network.  And the IT staff, if there is one, admits it.  If anyone actually working in dealerships for any length of time knows differently, please speak up.  I would want to hear about it.  So, the advantages of cloud-based systems for dealers is that they see those nightly backups, better security, etc.  To change to the PROTECTED and SECURE server-based path you suggest would require a monumental investment in personnel and hardware/software that many dealerships are not capable of, either in thought, budget, or both.

Gartner is a group I've dealt with on studies, etc., nearly since their inception in 1979.  That article is a very good one, and brings out lots of points.  I am sure I can rummage around and find one about the inherent risks of individual servers vs. distributed computing.  I remember when in-network distributed computing was all the rage, an "internal cloud", if you will. It's now quite common.

The cloud isn't going away.  And committing security as a key issue while ignoring the real world issues that dealers face, anyway, with server-based, is not a real argument.  At least not to my thinking.  However, I applaud your efforts to secure the data.  At this point, it's the network that is the issue wayyyy before we hit any server, anywhere, on the network or the cloud.

Thanks!

P.S. Added later:  Here's a funny with financial institutions.  I worked with a couple of banks in Louisiana in the late 90's.  They still had many DOS-based programs they were "vendor locked" into from feature set and training.  Security was the topic, of course.

Then I found out that, at the time, all the ATMs in the USA were built with non-encrypted RS232c lines for transferring transactional data.  Here I was in a bank, and if I had wanted to broach the ATMs it would have taken very little time and money.  Not that I would, or did, do that, but my point is that the major leaks of consumer data have been most often rooted in financial institutions--we all think of the bank vault, but even now it's a data vault that can come with a steel door and a wood floor.

Linn Boyd said:

@Joe

All of your banking is NOT stored in a "Hosted" or a cloud based solution that is controlled by others and Bank Of American and Wells Fargo control their own infrastructure and systems. All of the small credit unions and banks that I have worked with have all of the data in either their facility or a private colocation area that is SSAE 16 audited. Their websites may be hosted by someone else but not their private data. They also get an audit log of who has seen all of their data, along with other safe guards. Yes, it is on the internet, but it is not a "hosted" our cloud based solution completely, with a CRM system they are putting it all out there.

With a hosted solution you are inherently vendor locked into their solution, they can raise their prices at will, and not let you have access to your own data and a lot of other things. I know of more than one company that was servicing enterprise type of accounts using megaupload's CDN to distribute the data, now they are out of business, and they didn't have a copy of their data, some were also using a sister companies data.

Here is a study released by the Gartner group http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/gartner-seven-cloud-com... also there are many healthcare and financial rules about the cloud that are beginning to come out right now that are going to specifically ban cloud computing.

Would a customer buy a car from you if you told them, hey I have a great business and am making money but if I go out of business you get a car with all of the screws and bolts to hold it together taken away just overnight. That is what going with a hosted CRM/DMS solution can do to you! 

For your websites there are ways to safe guard this, but with your CRM/DMS etc. etc. there is not. You should be getting nightly backups of the following daily delivered to you on a USB key(or disk drive), and rotate them in two week increments with at least one going off site.

1) DMS
2) CRM other critical tools
3) eMail server
4) Critical Files
5) If your website is dynamic this (if it isn't dynamic you should get it monthly)

You should also have a SOP that allows you to continue business as usual without any vendor, without losing email addresses etc. within 48 hours.

One of the things that I see is a store send person emails from their sales staff to a customer using another domain example, it is very unprofessional to see Keith.Shutterly@iamtocheaptobuymyowndomain.com rather than keith.shutterly@mylocalcarstore.com. Using the other domains that are used by hundreds of dealers also makes it very easy to block those domains from corporate email etc. and if you don't think that administrators do that you are mistaken. I know a large hosting provider that causes those email email domains to be slowed purposely. This hosting provider is responsible for millions of domains. It is proven that customers don't like to see their information sold etc and the domains changing are exactly that.

I am could keep going, but I am going to end with this from someone at MIT that is much smarter than me. Speaking about security in the cloud. If the government specifically bans cloud computing for anything of any importance on their internal systems, it makes me think that I don't want my company’s proprietary information there either.

"The very term cloud computing should be replaced by swamp computing." Ron Rivest, MIT Computer Scientist, co-inventor, RSA public key cryptography algorithm.

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